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Dating Montblanc 149s


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#181 Lalique

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 17:03


Kai (sunnerd) and I have teamed up! We've consolidated his images and my chart, as follows:

Posted Image

I'm having trouble determining the age of my pen. Can you help me?


Aloha, soroos:

Thank you for posting your Montblanc 149 fountain pens chart for dating Montblanc 149 fountain pens. Your chart is helping me invaluably to identify the Montblanc Meisterstuck 149; 1991, 1992, 1993, or 1994 fountain pen I'm seeking to purchase to match the 1991 vintage Montblank Lalique fountain pen desk set I bought two days ago on eBay and for which that desk set was made. The exact desk set I now own, but have not yet received from the seller, is able to be seen at the link that follows by scrolling down a little once the page opens:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=250961065890

Mahalo

Edited by Lalique, 05 January 2012 - 17:05.


#182 Wael El-Dasher

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 11:59

I've read and re-read this thread several times and enjoyed it every time. A lot of effort has gone into this and it really symbolizes what's wonderful about this forum. So a big thanks to everyone.

Being the persnickety guy that I am Posted Image...I would love to see photos added to three sections.

Barrel: Single Unit resin looks completely different to me than single unit 1950's. The fact that in the 50's, the threads were cut into the ink window makes a huge difference aesthetically to me and is one of the most desirable features of the 50's ink window, along with the painted stripes. I wish I had my 60's 149 still so I can take a photo.

Filler Thread: The 60's 149 pen I sold some time ago, had the rounded edge friction fit mechanism, similar to that of the 1950's, which is a small but very elegant detail. The second generation plastic threads (with threaded mechanism) had a flat brass edge, similar to the current model. I believe both should be represented.

Feeds: Both my 1950's 149 have ski slope feeders, which are noted in the chart but no photo is shown.

Again, these are minor pictorial comment but I believe they'll make this chart closer to complete. It would be fantastic if this chart was sold on FPN as a poster for diehards to put up on their bedroom walls as we used to do when we were kids of our favorite bands and celebs...Posted Image

I can see my wife taking it down and telling me to grow up Posted Image

cheers

Wael

PS. I should print a copy of this chart on 11x17 or A3 and give it to the MB Boutique so they can be better educated when explaining to their customers the history of the 149. Posted Image.....errr, with your permission of course Posted Image

Edited by Wael El-Dasher, 06 January 2012 - 12:01.


#183 OldFrog

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 18:34

Hello,

first post, so hello everybody from France.

Browsing on the net because I bought an used 149 on eBay recently, I was captivated by this thread.
Actually I don't know Montblanc, except for some reading, this one is my first one, but I noticed that my brand new acquisition may interest you, mainly for the bitone 18c :

Posted Image

Feeds: solid ebonite
Nib: 18c 2-tone
Barrel: 1 section
Filler threads: black plastic

Using your wonderful descriptions here, it seems it is dated 1970s.
If you are interested, I may post other pics of this pen.

The tilted nib doesn't hinder a very smooth writing.
Actually, the only pen I can compare with for the smoothness is a Sailor KOP.

I keep your thread in my favorites !

Edited by OldFrog, 13 January 2012 - 21:17.


#184 hari317

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 17:01

but I noticed that my brand new acquisition may interest you, mainly for the bitone 18c :


Thank you for sharing the picture. This is the first 18C bitone nib that i have seen.

Regards,
hari

#185 OldFrog

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 22:37


but I noticed that my brand new acquisition may interest you, mainly for the bitone 18c :


Thank you for sharing the picture. This is the first 18C bitone nib that i have seen.

Regards,
hari


Thanks a lot, I think it was not that rare in the 70s in France, a I could see some ads here and there of sellers, all obsolete. But I don't know more.

Edited by OldFrog, 14 January 2012 - 22:42.


#186 OldFrog

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 23:30

*snip*
Posted Image

Feeds: solid ebonite
Nib: 18c 2-tone
Barrel: 1 section
Filler threads: black plastic

Using your wonderful descriptions here, it seems it is dated 1970s.
*snip*


Well actually, I'm wondering if it's not a reassembled pen, as the washer shows "Germany", so post-1990 ???

#187 talkinghead

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:34

Well actually, I'm wondering if it's not a reassembled pen, as the washer shows "Germany", so post-1990 ???



Not exactly. "Germany" was stamped on the ring both prior to, and then after the unification. "W. Germany" was used on the clip ring for a bit in between.

Oh and :W2FPN:

Rick
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Posted Image
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#188 Pen Nut

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 14:03

Does anyone know approx when the 'snowcap' became mother of pearl on the Solitaire Solid Gold & Solid Platinum models?

Oh and I have noted in the point of sale book I use for reference that the Solid Gold models have two tone 18ct nibs whilst the Solid Platinum ones have the 18ct three tone nibs. This is a 2005/2006 sales book.

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#189 cuza

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 21:52

This has been a most helpful topic. Kudos to all contributors.

Turns out that my 149 is some sort of a "blend" due to the fact that It has been to the MB service center a couple of times in its life (born mid-1980's).



--
cuza




#190 ajha1970

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 23:38

Well, this is going to be risky............. but here goes anyway...................

When trying to get my mind around the various permutations, I constructed the chart below. The information is based on info from Barry Gabay's article and the posts of niksch and others, but of course, the errors are all mine. And I'm certain there are errors and inaccuracies. So let me know what they are and I'll adjust the chart accordingly.

Posted Image

Hi
Great Work
Can you make this Gpraphical Chart for the Price Also in USD,

#191 Chrissy

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 17:00

Hi, I'm so glad I found this chart. I always wondered when the brass filler threads started.

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#192 OldFrog

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 17:17

Not exactly. "Germany" was stamped on the ring both prior to, and then after the unification. "W. Germany" was used on the clip ring for a bit in between.

Oh and :W2FPN:

Rick


You got a point here. I could find out too that 18c bitone nibs were used c. 1978-1982 by MontBlanc for french market, due to french legacy rules (Mandatory 75 % alloy = 750 = 18 kt. Rules changed since).
So I guess my pen is still a good candidate for this period.

Thanks for hint and kind welcome !

Edited by OldFrog, 21 February 2012 - 17:22.


#193 Sagar_C

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:45

Well, this is going to be risky............. but here goes anyway...................

When trying to get my mind around the various permutations, I constructed the chart below. The information is based on info from Barry Gabay's article and the posts of niksch and others, but of course, the errors are all mine. And I'm certain there are errors and inaccuracies. So let me know what they are and I'll adjust the chart accordingly.

Posted Image


Looking at the chart it seems that the 149 produced in 1991 was special in term of combination of the split feed and bi-colour nib. Do they seek more price?

#194 rfc

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 12:39


*snip*
Posted Image

Feeds: solid ebonite
Nib: 18c 2-tone
Barrel: 1 section
Filler threads: black plastic

Using your wonderful descriptions here, it seems it is dated 1970s.
*snip*


Well actually, I'm wondering if it's not a reassembled pen, as the washer shows "Germany", so post-1990 ???


How come the slit is not in proportion with the engraving?

#195 Sagar_C

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 19:50

Version 2.0

Reformatted and image of ski slope feed added.


I seem to have a pen that doesn't fit in! Split ebonite feed, bicolour 14K nib BUT plastic threads! Any comments? Thanks.

Edited to add: sorry wrong question, didn't see the updated chart then. :embarrassed_smile:

Edited by Sagar_C, 08 March 2012 - 22:03.


#196 Spidy

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 22:10

I must say I find this thread both fascinating and very educational. I've learnt so much about fountain pens by frequenting these forums in the past month. Kudos to all here who share their knowledge.

I do have a further query however. In another thread I asked about the stamp under the clip. The words "PIX", "METAL" and "LAITON" (French for brass) have been described as being seen. My query in this thread is if anyone can date when these engravings appeared, as a member on the other thread indicated that these are time related engravings rather than model related (I asked why my 149 had it but not my 147).

#197 ImNotSam

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 18:11

A comfort to me that my 149 is now exactly dated. I couldn't remember if I'd bought it in 1969 or 1970. yes, I just wrote with it today. No, it's never been serviced. And it's been lovingly mistreated by me for 42 years now. I was a student when I bought it ... on close out sale. 18C tri-tone nib, round ebonite grooves face feed, black plastic piston, clip ring says "Germany.". I don't take it out of the house anymore for purely sentimental reasons, and I'm afraid that if I ever sent it to MB for servicing, I wouldn't get anything resembling my original pen back. I'd love to know if I could put some silicone grease on the piston, though ...

#198 hari317

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 04:35

A comfort to me that my 149 is now exactly dated. I couldn't remember if I'd bought it in 1969 or 1970. yes, I just wrote with it today. No, it's never been serviced. And it's been lovingly mistreated by me for 42 years now. I was a student when I bought it ... on close out sale. 18C tri-tone nib, round ebonite grooves face feed, black plastic piston, clip ring says "Germany.". I don't take it out of the house anymore for purely sentimental reasons, and I'm afraid that if I ever sent it to MB for servicing, I wouldn't get anything resembling my original pen back. I'd love to know if I could put some silicone grease on the piston, though ...


Can you pls post a picture of the pen? with details of the area near the piston knob trim ring. your pen might have the press fit filler which is tricky to disassemble. In such pens it is best to introduce the silicone from the nib end after removing the nib unit. you will need purpose built tools for this so that no marks are left on the pen as a result of this operation.

Best
Hari

#199 ImNotSam

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 16:21


A comfort to me that my 149 is now exactly dated. I couldn't remember if I'd bought it in 1969 or 1970. yes, I just wrote with it today. No, it's never been serviced. And it's been lovingly mistreated by me for 42 years now. I was a student when I bought it ... on close out sale. 18C tri-tone nib, round ebonite grooves face feed, black plastic piston, clip ring says "Germany.". I don't take it out of the house anymore for purely sentimental reasons, and I'm afraid that if I ever sent it to MB for servicing, I wouldn't get anything resembling my original pen back. I'd love to know if I could put some silicone grease on the piston, though ...


Can you pls post a picture of the pen? with details of the area near the piston knob trim ring. your pen might have the press fit filler which is tricky to disassemble. In such pens it is best to introduce the silicone from the nib end after removing the nib unit. you will need purpose built tools for this so that no marks are left on the pen as a result of this operation.

Best
Hari



Oh dear! I'll certainly not go anywhere near the silicone grease. Glad I asked ... But then again, I'm not one to perform brain surgery without a manual. I'm only semi-reckless with things I already know how to do.

I'll try to take some photos; the good news is I just bought a set of lenses for my iPhone but the bad news is I have to learn how to attach them and actually use them.

#200 pansipotter

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 11:27

Sorry to be so late to this party but having only just started looking for a 149, this is where I started.

All I can say is thank you for putting this on FPN to share. Brilliant.

I feel so much more confident that what I pick is a certain age etc.

Thanks again
PS I used the 14C nib dates as a rough date for my 145 (no idea how old it is, belonged to a relative with no papers)
You can't have too many fountain pens.....

#201 WestLothian

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 06:00

I have just bought an older 149 from a German antique shop. It is a single piece barrel, and has a two-tone 14c semi-flexible nib with a split ebonite feed. The piston filler has a black plastic upper thread. This would put the date between 1975 and 1985.

I re-lubricated the piston seal since the turning resistance seem quite high when filling or draining. During this maintenance I found that the helical drive that engages with the piston rod is a white plastic rather than the black ones that are shown in the photographs here. I wondered when this material or colour changed, and whether this could also be used for dating purposes?

Edited by WestLothian, 24 May 2012 - 06:01.


#202 dks202

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 13:26

I sailed through these posts trying to catch up. Very informative chart!!

Unless I missed it no one mentioned another way to date a few pens. Before the 1990 reunification of the two Germanys pens were stamped "W.GERMANY" then just "GERMANY". Even better, serial numbers were added at about the same time. If you have a W. German pen AND a serial number, you really have something special.

#203 hari317

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 13:59

Unless I missed it no one mentioned another way to date a few pens. Before the 1990 reunification of the two Germanys pens were stamped "W.GERMANY" then just "GERMANY". Even better, serial numbers were added at about the same time. If you have a W. German pen AND a serial number, you really have something special.


Actually the pre '85 pens were only marked Germany. They stated marking W. Germany only in the mid 80s upto the fall of the wall based on several observations.

#204 BGAndrea

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 15:32

Just got my first MB 149 on an auction site. I'll post pics when it arrives. All I know right now is that it: Montblanc Miesterstuck 149 Fountain Pen Nib says 4810, 14c and 585. I'll be interested in dating it. Thanks for this great thread.

#205 ivanwong

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 03:09

Mine is kind of strange:

Solid Ebonite Feeds, Single Unit Barrel, Black Plastic filler thread... which made it a 1970s 149.
But strange that it has a rose gold tri-color 18C nib, how could that happen?IMG_32361.JPG

I am new to fountain pens, please forgive my stupid questions. Thanks!

#206 OldFrog

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 08:22

Mine is kind of strange:

Solid Ebonite Feeds, Single Unit Barrel, Black Plastic filler thread... which made it a 1970s 149.
But strange that it has a rose gold tri-color 18C nib, how could that happen?



Quite simple: 18c was made for french market as per legal rules about gold quality.
And there were 3-tone nibs in these ones.

#207 ivanwong

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 03:29


Mine is kind of strange:

Solid Ebonite Feeds, Single Unit Barrel, Black Plastic filler thread... which made it a 1970s 149.
But strange that it has a rose gold tri-color 18C nib, how could that happen?



Quite simple: 18c was made for french market as per legal rules about gold quality.
And there were 3-tone nibs in these ones.


So doesn't that mean this pen were made from 1969-71 for french market?
Thanks in advance!

I am new to fountain pens, please forgive my stupid questions. Thanks!

#208 hari317

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 05:10

There is some debate whether all 18C tritone nibs can be automatically designated "French market". FWIW, I have purchased several 149s of 60s-70s from US and Asia based individuals (not collectors, individuals selling estate finds, parents pens etc...) with the 18C tri tone nib. so they seem to have been widely available...

#209 Chrissy

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 06:30

There is some debate whether all 18C tritone nibs can be automatically designated "French market". FWIW, I have purchased several 149s of 60s-70s from US and Asia based individuals (not collectors, individuals selling estate finds, parents pens etc...) with the 18C tri tone nib. so they seem to have been widely available...

My 149 also has an 18ct tritone nib. It's a nice BB. Mind you, I did buy it from France....

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#210 hari317

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 07:22


There is some debate whether all 18C tritone nibs can be automatically designated "French market". FWIW, I have purchased several 149s of 60s-70s from US and Asia based individuals (not collectors, individuals selling estate finds, parents pens etc...) with the 18C tri tone nib. so they seem to have been widely available...

My 149 also has an 18ct tritone nib. It's a nice BB. Mind you, I did buy it from France....

my point is that they seem to have been abundantly sold outside of France too. :)