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Dating Montblanc 149s


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311 replies to this topic

#1 DKbRS

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 23:18

Well, this is going to be risky............. but here goes anyway...................

When trying to get my mind around the various permutations, I constructed the chart below. The information is based on info from Barry Gabay's article and the posts of niksch and others, but of course, the errors are all mine. And I'm certain there are errors and inaccuracies. So let me know what they are and I'll adjust the chart accordingly.

Posted Image
David

#2 HBlaine

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Posted 04 October 2010 - 23:40

Excellent work! I like the way you've done this. Makes for good, clear, quick reference.

Thanks for posting it! :thumbup:

Edited by HBlaine, 04 October 2010 - 23:40.

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#3 bushido

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 00:38

shows how ignorant about mbs === i didn't know the threads are brass. i always thought the new ones with the black threads were plastic . just curious, does the 146/7 have brass threads too?

#4 jar

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 01:56

shows how ignorant about mbs === i didn't know the threads are brass. i always thought the new ones with the black threads were plastic . just curious, does the 146/7 have brass threads too?


Threads at the blind cap.

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#5 talkinghead

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 02:23

David,

Not risky at all! I use a handmade chart very similiar for my own quick reference. Your's is very slick! I had presented a chart idea like this to Niksch a year or so ago but he never got around actually making one like it!

Congrats on the cool chart. I'm gonna print it out.

Rick
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#6 mr. abulia

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 02:29

What about rounded vs. Flat rings and silver vs. gold bands? Could you add them to the chart?

#7 Chris Chalmers

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 03:46

Thanks for this - excellent chart which I have saved to my files!
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#8 niksch

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 04:35

I do not recall that. BTW the weather in Baltimore sucks today.

David,

Not risky at all! I use a handmade chart very similiar for my own quick reference. Your's is very slick! I had presented a chart idea like this to Niksch a year or so ago but he never got around actually making one like it!

Congrats on the cool chart. I'm gonna print it out.

Rick


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#9 hari317

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 04:57

Excellent chart David, once completed it will be an excellent resource. Under barrels you might want to add celluloid for the 50's decade. Early to mid 60's early plastic barrel's filling system was press fit filler with higher ink capacity.

#10 J Sorrell

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 06:09

Dear DKbRS,

This is an excellent reference tool, many thanks.

Once it has been finalised, I was wondering whether the moderators could place this as a sticky at the top of the forum?

Best regards,

Jamie.

#11 Toolan

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 07:42

What an excellent idea and very well executed.

Well done.

Toolan

#12 Barry Gabay

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 08:43

Very nice work. Thank you for your contribution to our understanding of the 140 series, and especially 149s. All of it on a single page: Great Job!!! Can't wait to study it. OK, second thought. Who will do the caps? cap tube, cap crown, clip, rings, and type of engraving on central ring. What I especially like about your diagram is the overlap which is so common at certain transitional points: very early 60s, early-mid 80s, early 90s.

Edited by Barry Gabay, 05 October 2010 - 08:47.


#13 ozwill45

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 10:49

very nice reference tool for those new to the 149 - like me.

I wonder if LEs and SEs could be included.

Edited by ozwill45, 05 October 2010 - 10:49.


#14 DKbRS

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 11:28

Thanks all for the comments.

Is the chart correct re tri-color 18C nibs? For example, there was one that was advertised and sold here yesterday evening that had a tri-color 18C nib but was described as from the 60s with what seemed to be a feed with grooves on the face only (although there wasn't a photo of the feed, so I can't be sure).
David

#15 hari317

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 14:18

Is the chart correct re tri-color 18C nibs? For example, there was one that was advertised and sold here yesterday evening that had a tri-color 18C nib but was described as from the 60s with what seemed to be a feed with grooves on the face only (although there wasn't a photo of the feed, so I can't be sure).


IIR the post correctly, I think that was a refurbished pen, I infer this from the modern 2 piece barrel with exposed feeder case on the pen.

I was mistaken, I saw the thread that you are referring to, the pen there is correct. Incidentally there was another pen with a 18C tritone that was sold yesterday which I was referring to.

Edited by hari317, 05 October 2010 - 15:12.


#16 humblescribbler

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 15:48

Thanks all for the comments.

Is the chart correct re tri-color 18C nibs? For example, there was one that was advertised and sold here yesterday evening that had a tri-color 18C nib but was described as from the 60s with what seemed to be a feed with grooves on the face only (although there wasn't a photo of the feed, so I can't be sure).


COOL Chart! :thumbup: Thanks for that.

My 149 doesn't exactly fit. It is tri-color 18c (not "K") nib w/ plastic threads for the filler knob. (I think) a single section barrel. Feed is the plastic w/ horizontal combs.

Didn't I read somewhere on these boards (or in an attached article) that several MB 149's "back in the day" were stocked in stores w/o nibs? Therefore the retail outlet could then add the nib as requested which made it more convenient to stock and store the pens? It would make sense then that nibs drifted onto later model bodies and vice versa........

Michael

#17 hari317

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 16:03

My 149 doesn't exactly fit. It is tri-color 18c (not "K") nib w/ plastic threads for the filler knob. (I think) a single section barrel. Feed is the plastic w/ horizontal combs.

Didn't I read somewhere on these boards (or in an attached article) that several MB 149's "back in the day" were stocked in stores w/o nibs? Therefore the retail outlet could then add the nib as requested which made it more convenient to stock and store the pens? It would make sense then that nibs drifted onto later model bodies and vice versa........

Michael


Hi Michael, it is interesting, do you have a picture of your pen to help us tell if it is one piece or two piece barrel? I am guessing that your pen might have been refurbished by MB with modern parts.

I have never heard before of the 149s stored at retail locations without nibs, interesting info.

Regards,
Hari

#18 humblescribbler

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 16:49


My 149 doesn't exactly fit. It is tri-color 18c (not "K") nib w/ plastic threads for the filler knob. (I think) a single section barrel. Feed is the plastic w/ horizontal combs.

Didn't I read somewhere on these boards (or in an attached article) that several MB 149's "back in the day" were stocked in stores w/o nibs? Therefore the retail outlet could then add the nib as requested which made it more convenient to stock and store the pens? It would make sense then that nibs drifted onto later model bodies and vice versa........

Michael


Hi Michael, it is interesting, do you have a picture of your pen to help us tell if it is one piece or two piece barrel? I am guessing that your pen might have been refurbished by MB with modern parts.

I have never heard before of the 149s stored at retail locations without nibs, interesting info.

Regards,
Hari


Thanks, Hari. I'll try to source that info again re: the nibs, and also post a photo when I get home tonight.

Your "guess" however, is akin to expert MB testimony in any courtroom!! :rolleyes: It makes sense, I got it from a Texas vendor at the DC show, who snagged it in an estate sale.

Thanks,
Michael

#19 mano I

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 17:00

Is it fair to assume some overlap or inconsistency in most all parts as changes were being made especially around 1989-1990? In other words, MB would continue to use "old" parts until they were depleted and only then use the newer design. Not all parts were depleted at the same time.

So perhaps a non-refurbished 149 from that era might have any combination of bi-colored 14 or 18K nib, plastic or ebonite feed and black or plastic threads.

Edited by mano I, 05 October 2010 - 17:02.


#20 DKbRS

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 17:06

COOL Chart! :thumbup: Thanks for that.

My 149 doesn't exactly fit. It is tri-color 18c (not "K") nib w/ plastic threads for the filler knob. (I think) a single section barrel. Feed is the plastic w/ horizontal combs.

Didn't I read somewhere on these boards (or in an attached article) that several MB 149's "back in the day" were stocked in stores w/o nibs? Therefore the retail outlet could then add the nib as requested which made it more convenient to stock and store the pens? It would make sense then that nibs drifted onto later model bodies and vice versa........

Michael


Here's an image of one of my 149s, post-1985, with a 2-section barrel. The arrows show a line visible at the junction just below the threads and above the ink view window:

Posted Image
David

#21 humblescribbler

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 18:28


COOL Chart! :thumbup: Thanks for that.

My 149 doesn't exactly fit. It is tri-color 18c (not "K") nib w/ plastic threads for the filler knob. (I think) a single section barrel. Feed is the plastic w/ horizontal combs.

Didn't I read somewhere on these boards (or in an attached article) that several MB 149's "back in the day" were stocked in stores w/o nibs? Therefore the retail outlet could then add the nib as requested which made it more convenient to stock and store the pens? It would make sense then that nibs drifted onto later model bodies and vice versa........

Michael


Here's an image of one of my 149s, post-1985, with a 2-section barrel. The arrows show a line visible at the junction just below the threads and above the ink view window:



AHHH!! I see. That was very helpful. Mine's definitely a one-piece barrel as just examined under a 10x loupe. And I apologize as I didn't mean to hijack the thread w/ a discussion about my particular pen.:embarrassed_smile:

I'll still post a pic later tonight and see if we can "chart" it. I'm certain that Hari's surmise is correct, and will still try to find the info re: MB 1494 stock in retail outlets w/o nibs.

Thank you and, again, wonderful matrix you've produced!

Michael

#22 sunnerd

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 18:43

David, this is a very comprehensive taxonomy of the various 149 parts and their history. Many many thanks for doing it!
:thumbup:
Now can someone advise if there are further subtle differences over the years on the following:
1. section lip
2. filler brass ring (roundish vs crisp)
3. clip
4. imprints on the cap and blind cap.
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#23 NABodie

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 18:51

Super chart! Great work on this. :clap1:

#24 DKbRS

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 19:07

Thanks. Now if I only had a bit more practical rather than theoretical knowledge AKA I need more 149s.
David

#25 soapytwist

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 19:28

As this thread has already proved, this timeline with illustrations would be brilliant!

I'd be happy to donate pictures of my two (1950s and 1991-4 models) but others may have better facilities and more pens to give better photos. Please PM me if you're thinking of incorporating pictures.
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#26 mr. abulia

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 21:55



COOL Chart! :thumbup: Thanks for that.

My 149 doesn't exactly fit. It is tri-color 18c (not "K") nib w/ plastic threads for the filler knob. (I think) a single section barrel. Feed is the plastic w/ horizontal combs.

Didn't I read somewhere on these boards (or in an attached article) that several MB 149's "back in the day" were stocked in stores w/o nibs? Therefore the retail outlet could then add the nib as requested which made it more convenient to stock and store the pens? It would make sense then that nibs drifted onto later model bodies and vice versa........

Michael


Here's an image of one of my 149s, post-1985, with a 2-section barrel. The arrows show a line visible at the junction just below the threads and above the ink view window:



AHHH!! I see. That was very helpful. Mine's definitely a one-piece barrel as just examined under a 10x loupe. And I apologize as I didn't mean to hijack the thread w/ a discussion about my particular pen.:embarrassed_smile:

I'll still post a pic later tonight and see if we can "chart" it. I'm certain that Hari's surmise is correct, and will still try to find the info re: MB 1494 stock in retail outlets w/o nibs.

Thank you and, again, wonderful matrix you've produced!

Michael


Interesting! I just bought a pen from Texas that sounds exactly the same: it has what looks like a 1-piece body, plastic filler, 18C tri-colour, somewhat flexible nib. The feed is a bit scratched up, so I'm not sure exactly which it is.

Hari, if you or anyone else would like to take a look, I don't have the pen yet, but pictures of it are here. Bonus points if you can tell me what kind of nib I am getting (looks like a "fine" to me).

Cheers!

#27 mr. abulia

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 21:59

As this thread has already proved, this timeline with illustrations would be brilliant!

I'd be happy to donate pictures of my two (1950s and 1991-4 models) but others may have better facilities and more pens to give better photos. Please PM me if you're thinking of incorporating pictures.


That would be excellent! If this chart grew to incorporate illustrations as well as the other features (cap, engravings, rings, etc.) I'll bet DKbRS could sell it as a poster :)

#28 lsmith42

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Posted 05 October 2010 - 22:09

Someone's been studying their Tufte... very nice!
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#29 humblescribbler

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 02:02

Ok here it is. Apologize for the photo quality -- my first attempt on this board. And I double checked my feed is strictly the modern plastic horizontal combs w/o any grooving, unlike the last pics I just saw in a previous post which has grooving.

And I think I was confused about the changing out of the nibs after customer purchase by the Pentrace article found here.

http://www.pentrace....05 <br /><br />Specifically stated here if you don't want to use the link. I changed the font to differentiate it:

"The 50's celluloid pens have the model heat stamped on the filler knob, I have yet to see one with the nib style stamped and I believe it's because in the day if you bought one of these the nib of your choice was fitted for you. I think this allowed the store to keep a smaller inventory of expensive pens on hand. Also note the gold band near the filler, early pens have a rounded band and even into the 60's this is true, after about 1972 the band is flat and wide."

A re-read seems to indicate retailers were able to keep less 149 bodies in stock, since the nib was fitted after. Does anyone else read this differently? Or is this just speculative?

Thanks

Michael

#30 meiers

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 03:28

Nicely done. I will take a close look at it later.
Just corrected thirty student essays. That has left me a little cross-eyed.

By the way, I would never date a 149.
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