Flow problems

[Matt]

I have several pens, of different brands, that are wonderful smooth, wet writers. However, if I am writing with them for several pages at a time, they seem to get gradually lighter and lighter until I feel the need to give the converter a twist or two. Then the flow is good and wet again for another few pages. These are nice pens that I would expect not to have to do this with.

 

I have tried flushing them with water & dish degergent mix, but that doesn't seem to do much. Should I soak the nib and sections in water overnight? Maybe there is some buildup of ink in the sections.

 

I use a variety of inks, including Waterman, Noodlers, Private Reserve, mostly the latter two brands. Is this more of a problem with thicker more saturated inks?

 

Any advice is welcome.

 

Thanks.

 

Matt C.

[JimStrutton]

Hmmmm,

 

Well thicker inks don't flow as well, but the fact that it is more than one pen is causing me to scratch my head.

 

What makes of pens do you have and are they all exactly the same or is there some difference?

 

Jim

[kissing]

When I used fountain pens for the first time, I experienced what you experience (especially in Parker pens + Quink).

 

However, the problem seems to have *magically* disappeared for me Perhaps it's because I switched ink to Quink WASHABLE blue which has no flow problems and is my "guaranteed to work in a pen" ink.

 

Also, another factor is: Are your pens new? Have you bought them recently? Though it's a contraversial phenomenon, I have found that new pens tend to misbehave like you described, but then after using it for a few weeks, or perhaps even months, they seem to become more consistent...

 

I noticed this with my Parker Vector, Parker Sonnet, Pelikan M150, Manuscript Fountain Pen and the Inoxcrom. Perhaps pens do have a "break-in" period (either for the nib to alter, or for you to get totally used to using them).

 

Are you a fast writer? From what you described, it seems as though the feed runs out of ink as you write and thus writes drier for a period. It may be because the ink is sticking to the sides of the filling mechanism (converter?). This is known as "SID" or "SIS" (Sticky Ink Disease/Syndrome) and is not uncommon for viscous inks.

 

Hope you figure out some remedy for it.

 

 

ps: In the worst case scenario - the last resort would be to add a drop of dishwashing liquid to your bottle of ink (or a tiny little amount directly to the converter). This would probably give you instant results, but it is a technique discouraged by some people.

[Ron Z]

We might be able to help you if you mentioned what the pens are. There are some out there that have a tendency to do this, but require a little surgery to correct the problem.

[KendallJ]

Ironic, I was having this exact problem. I have noticed it on pens with the stock Bock, steel nib unit. The one that screws into the pen, and usually comes on inexpensive Taccia, THINK, and a few other pens, marked Iridium Point Germany.

 

On sitting the pen will always generate good flow, but with use will tail off.

 

I have flossed the nibs with both brass and mylar, and used sheet brass to floss out the channel in the plastic feeds from end to end, but still does it. Any other recommendaions out there? is there some trick to adjusting this particular nib unit's flow?

 

I suspect something is not allowing air to move properly in the design of the feed.

Edited September 25, 2006 by KendallJ

[Ray]

I'm watching this one with interest.

 

Ray

[KendallJ]

I'm particularly interested if Richard has seen this issue since he reps Taccia pens that carry this nib unit.

[Judybug]

I'm watching this one with interest.

 

Ray

Yes, I'm watching this discussion with interest, too. I have several pens that occasionally require a twist of the converter. This doesn't bother me - I look at it as part of the fountain pen mystique. But I suppose if you do a lot of rapid writing, it could become annoying.

 

Judybug

[Matt]

Thanks for the replies. Here is some more information.

 

All the pens are new (at least in the past few months). They include:

 

Cross Verve

Cross Apogee

(My Cross Townsend however, writes and writes like a dream)

Waterman Liaison

 

I've never had this problem with my Sheaffers (except the Intrigue), or my Pelikans, or my Sailor 1911.

 

 

These are the ones that I have been using lately and that come to mind. Of course if they sit for a week or two, they are a bit balky on start-up and need a little coaxing to get going.

 

I do write a bit on the fast side, especially when writing in my journal.

 

I have a friend who is convinced that new pens inherently have inadequate feeds (he uses vintage pens almost exclusively).

 

Looking forward to more responses as it looks like I am not alone in my frustration.

 

Matt C.

[KendallJ]

bump, we're looking for some help from some of the nibmeisters out there. Richard, help!

[fjf]

I am no nibmeister, but I've read that increasing flow means adjusting/increasing the space between feed and nib, and also between the tines:

http://www.nibs.com/Article6SmoothingAdjusting.htm

http://www.penmuseum.co.uk/master%202.htm

[born t]

Just want some clarification. When you mean 'fade', do you mean it 'steadily' fades away and finally disappears altogether if you don't twist the convertor? Or do you mean it just fades 'to a certain level' and then write 'constantly at that level' until the ink runs out?

 

If the latter, I experience it, too. And the reason is simply because after each refilling the feed and the space between the feed and the nib are filled excessively with ink, to the point that if I shake the pen I will spill it. This makes the pen write relatively wet at the start until the feed becomes 'normally dry' when the pen begins to write lighter (but still perfectly legible & aesthetically fine). It will keep on writing light like that until it runs out of ink.

 

On the other hand if I wipe the feed dry immediately after refilling (so that I don't spill the ink), the pen will write light from the start without further fading until it runs out of ink.

 

All of my pens exhibit the same behaviour, and I think it's normal.

 

 

Regards,

Born

[KendallJ]

Just want some clarification.  When you mean 'fade', do you mean it 'steadily' fades away and finally disappears altogether if you don't twist the convertor?  Or do you mean it just fades 'to a certain level' and then write 'constantly at that level' until the ink runs out?

For me, it is the former (fades to a certain level and doesn't run out). And I don't think it's normal. The level it fades to is very "starved", very dry. If I cap the pen and let it sit, then write with it, it is very wet again. To me this means that the flow of air/ink in the feed cannot keep pace with my writing, which is the case only on a few pens. Many other of my pens do not exhibit this behavior.

 

The rate at which the nib will put ink to paper, and the rate which the feed will deliver ink to the nib should be matched. They are not.

Edited September 25, 2006 by KendallJ

[KendallJ]

I am no nibmeister, but I've read that increasing flow means adjusting/increasing the space between feed and nib, and also between the tines:

http://www.nibs.com/Article6SmoothingAdjusting.htm

http://www.penmuseum.co.uk/master%202.htm

So the question would be, given the new plastic feeds in units such as the Bock steel nib unit, how does one increase the space between nib and feed. I know on old ebonite feeds, you can shape the two with heat, but I dont' think that woudl work with the newer thermoplastic feeds. Is this a matter of maybe shaving the feed a bit off the top?

 

Where's Richard, when you need him.

[Maja]

Last night, I had a similar problem with an inexpensive pen (Dannitu 222). The ink was Parker Quink Blue-Black and was in a (glass) convertor. I tried widening the space between the tines with some fine Mylar and it helped temporarily, but then the ink would stop flowing...suddenly. Almost like someone hit the "off" switch

 

I opened the pen up and saw that the ink was stuck at the back of the convertor.

Aha! "Sticky Convertor Syndrome" (SCS)! (as "Kissing" pointed out)

 

I then switched to using the same ink in a cartridge (I removed the ink with a syringe and filled an empty cartridge) and it was fine. I guess I could have added a tiny bit of liquid soap to the convertor to help with the SCS but I opted to switch to cartridges....

 

I had flow problems with a Cross ATX and found out that the feed channel was being blocked by a tiny bit of plastic so I adjusted it and it worked fine.

[Matt]

Just want some clarification.  When you mean 'fade', do you mean it 'steadily' fades away and finally disappears altogether if you don't twist the convertor?  Or do you mean it just fades 'to a certain level' and then write 'constantly at that level' until the ink runs out?

Born,

 

I don't know if the fading/ink flow would ever quit as I usually give the converter a twist so that the ink flow increases. It's possible that it would stay at a constant less-wet consistency.

 

I guess I need to pay more attention and keep writing to see what happens. It sounds like there could be several issues at play here.

 

Matt C.

Edited September 26, 2006 by Matt

[pvdiamon]

I've had this problem with every pen that uses a converter that I have:

Aurora Ipsilon

Waterman Charleston

Sheaffer Prelude

Namiki VP

 

When it starts getting very light, I have to twist the converter. It's as if the ink isn't flowing well within the converter. I mostly use Noodlers, so not sure if this happens with other inks. I guess the converter could be "sticky" and maybe should be cleaned with detergent, but it happens with everyone, and some I've had for over a year or so.

 

John

[KendallJ]

Last night, I had a similar problem with an inexpensive pen (Dannitu 222). The ink was Parker Quink Blue-Black and was in a (glass) convertor. I tried widening the space between the tines with some fine Mylar and it helped temporarily, but then the ink would stop flowing...suddenly. Almost like someone hit the "off" switch

 

I opened the pen up and saw that the ink was stuck at the back of the convertor.

Aha! "Sticky Convertor Syndrome" (SCS)! (as "Kissing" pointed out)

 

I then switched to using the same ink in a cartridge (I removed the ink with a syringe and filled an empty cartridge) and it was fine. I guess I could have added a tiny bit of liquid soap to the convertor to help with the SCS but I opted to switch to cartridges....

 

I had flow problems with a Cross ATX and found out that the feed channel was being blocked by a tiny bit of plastic so I adjusted it and it worked fine.

That is a different problem. Many convertors I have don't wet well, and the ink gets stuck due to surface tension. Usually a shake will get the ink in the right place.

 

I've always wondered if maybe sulfonating the plastic would allow it to wet better. Anyone with a little concentrated sulfuric acid at home, work that in to the convertor and see if it helps.

 

That is the reason that ebonite feeds work so well. The vulcanization is essentially crosslinking with sulfur so the plastic wets well.

 

I took a chance and shaved a bit off the top of my feed on one of my Bock nib units. Will let you know how it works.

[Maja]

So what is the proper definition of "feed starvation" in the fountain pen world?

 

When ink can't get to the nib caused by structural feed problems...OR if ink can't leave the convertor due to high surface tension (sticky convertor syndrome)?

 

Enquiring minds want to know.....

 

(P.S. Thanks for the info on ebonite feeds, Kendall!)

[CharlieB]

When folks say "add a drop of detergent", do they mean the kind that goes in the dishwasher or the kind that one uses to wash dishes in the sink? Also, does cleaning the converter with ammonia help, or is detergent the better remedy? I have a few pens with these kinds of problems.