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Waterman Ink Cartridge Compatibility


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#1 penadict

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 14:50

I plan on taking a Waterman Phileas on a trip and wanted to know if an Aurora cartridge will fit this pen.

#2 carlc

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 14:54

No - Waterman pens require Waterman cartridges.

Aurora are only comaptible with Parker.
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#3 Mannenhitsu1973

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 03:27

No - Waterman pens require Waterman cartridges.

Aurora are only comaptible with Parker.


From my understanding, Waterman fountain pens should take any International cartridge, such as Pelikan, Montblanc, Levenger, Private Reserve, Levenger, etc.

#4 carlc

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 07:36


No - Waterman pens require Waterman cartridges.

Aurora are only comaptible with Parker.


From my understanding, Waterman fountain pens should take any International cartridge, such as Pelikan, Montblanc, Levenger, Private Reserve, Levenger, etc.


This has been a debate over the last couple of years.

Some say that is true - others say that actually there is a slight difference in the nipple size and there is the potential of damage. The other issue is that certain Watermans (such as the Carene) have a brass liner and long internationals will not fit in the barrel.

Have a look around - somewhere there is a long, long thread about this (I think it was last year but the new board settings have deleted my 'internal' bookmark).

Regards,

Carl
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#5 voop

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 17:55



No - Waterman pens require Waterman cartridges.

Aurora are only comaptible with Parker.


From my understanding, Waterman fountain pens should take any International cartridge, such as Pelikan, Montblanc, Levenger, Private Reserve, Levenger, etc.


This has been a debate over the last couple of years.

Some say that is true - others say that actually there is a slight difference in the nipple size and there is the potential of damage. The other issue is that certain Watermans (such as the Carene) have a brass liner and long internationals will not fit in the barrel.


I have a Carene (black/gold) here in my hand, and I have just tossed out the generic Intl. short cartridge that I had in it as it ran out of ink this morning, and replaced it with a generic long intl. cartridge that they happened to have in the supermarket down the street from the hotel.

If it's not supposed to fit in the barrel, then please ssssh don't tell my Carene, as it seems to be blissfully unaware that it should reject it.

I have seen some weird "double-nibbed" (it appeared as-if they had the "lib" in both ends) long international cartridges, which -- due to that "lib" -- were a couple of mm too long to fit in an Exception. I took a cutter to the lib and they worked great.

#6 carlc

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 19:14




No - Waterman pens require Waterman cartridges.

Aurora are only comaptible with Parker.


From my understanding, Waterman fountain pens should take any International cartridge, such as Pelikan, Montblanc, Levenger, Private Reserve, Levenger, etc.


This has been a debate over the last couple of years.

Some say that is true - others say that actually there is a slight difference in the nipple size and there is the potential of damage. The other issue is that certain Watermans (such as the Carene) have a brass liner and long internationals will not fit in the barrel.


I have a Carene (black/gold) here in my hand, and I have just tossed out the generic Intl. short cartridge that I had in it as it ran out of ink this morning, and replaced it with a generic long intl. cartridge that they happened to have in the supermarket down the street from the hotel.

If it's not supposed to fit in the barrel, then please ssssh don't tell my Carene, as it seems to be blissfully unaware that it should reject it.

I have seen some weird "double-nibbed" (it appeared as-if they had the "lib" in both ends) long international cartridges, which -- due to that "lib" -- were a couple of mm too long to fit in an Exception. I took a cutter to the lib and they worked great.


Oh well - must have remembered the thread wrongly - it's around here somewhere...

ETA: Here are two of them anyway here and here there is another one somewhere with macro shots of cartridge and feed nipples - IIRC it got quite heated but ended up with one FPNer absolutely insistent there was the possibility of damage due to size differences and the other saying they'd used them for years with no trouble. Anyone find it?

Edited by carlc, 27 July 2010 - 20:27.

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#7 amble63

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 19:38

I use other companies' short international cartridges in Watermans all the time - Herbin, Diamine, Private Reserve. Have not had a problem yet. In fact the thing that appears to have gummed up my Hemishpere after many Herbin cartridges is a Waterman one!
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#8 Felix1

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 12:27

Sam Fiorell of Pendemonium Vintage Writing Collectibles says:

"Recent Watermans (starting around 2004) have a brass sleeve inserted into the barrel that prevents some international cartridges from fitting properly."

Full text:

Standard International Cartridges

Standard International Cartridges fit many, many fountain pens! Below is a list, but it is by no means conclusive and there are certain exceptions as noted below. Most, but not all European pens will use standard international cartridges.

Standard short international cartridges measure 1.5inches (39mm) in length. Outer dimension of nipple width is 4mm, the inner width is 3mm. The diameter of the closed end of cartridge is 7mm. You may find slightly different tolerances among the different brands, but all are VERY close to these dimensions.

Many fountain pens that use standard short international cartridges will allow you to "piggyback" two cartridges in the barrel. This means you insert one cartridge into the nib/feed unit to use. The second cartridge is inserted nipple end down into the barrel so that the two flat closed ends of the cartridges flush up next to each other. Now you have a spare cartridge!

Acme
Ancora
Bexley
Bosserrt & Erhard
Caran d'Ache
Cartier
Colibri
Conklin
Conway Stewart
DaniTrio
Daniel Hechter
David Oscarson
Delta
Dunhill
Elysee
Faber Castell
Inoxcrom
Itoya
Jean Pierre Lepine
Jorg Hysek
Kaweco
Krone
Lalex
Libelle
Lominchay
Marlen
Michel Perchin
Montblanc (International cartridges will fit *most* MB pens, there are a few, that will use only Montblanc cartridges which have just a slightly different profile)
Montegrappa
Monteverde
Nettuno
Northpointe
OMAS
Osmiroid
Pelikan
Recife
Reform
Retro 51
Rotring
Schmidt
Schneider
Sensa
Sheaffer - Reacktor FP (the ONLY Sheaffer that does NOT use Sheaffer cartridges!)
Signum
S.T. Dupont
Stipula
Stypen
Taccia
Tombow
Underwood
Visconti
Waterford
Waterman (Recent Watermans (starting around 2004) have a brass sleeve inserted into the barrel that prevents some international cartridges from fitting properly)
Yard o Led

Proprietary Cartridges


These companies make pens that will ONLY take their cartridges, no others will fit, they are proprietary cartridges. Once in awhile, people get in a pinch and try to SHOVE a different cartridge into one of these pens. It might work, but be forewarned, you're just asking for a leaky cartridge, or even possible damage to your pen.

AT Cross
Lamy
Pilot/Namiki
Platinum
Sailor
Sheaffer (except Reacktor which uses Std Short International size)
Sheaffer Slim Cartridge II (Specs: Length: 64.5mm; Insertion end: 3.85mm; Barrel end: 6.5mm)

Other Cartridge Information


Aurora uses Aurora OR Parker cartridges
Fultz uses Parker OR Aurora cartridges
Parker uses Parker OR Aurora cartridges
Nakaya uses Platinum cartridges






I always get a kick out of these "no affiliation" notations when it's blatantly obvious the poster has absolutely nothing to do with the brand, company, etc. beyond being a customer. It must be a feel-good/feel-important thing. So I'll note up front that nothing I write here on this forum is influenced by any financial-gain motivation.

#9 jar

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 15:56

Sam Fiorell of Pendemonium Vintage Writing Collectibles says:

"Recent Watermans (starting around 2004) have a brass sleeve inserted into the barrel that prevents some international cartridges from fitting properly."

Full text:

Standard International Cartridges

Standard International Cartridges fit many, many fountain pens! Below is a list, but it is by no means conclusive and there are certain exceptions as noted below. Most, but not all European pens will use standard international cartridges.

Standard short international cartridges measure 1.5inches (39mm) in length. Outer dimension of nipple width is 4mm, the inner width is 3mm. The diameter of the closed end of cartridge is 7mm. You may find slightly different tolerances among the different brands, but all are VERY close to these dimensions.

Many fountain pens that use standard short international cartridges will allow you to "piggyback" two cartridges in the barrel. This means you insert one cartridge into the nib/feed unit to use. The second cartridge is inserted nipple end down into the barrel so that the two flat closed ends of the cartridges flush up next to each other. Now you have a spare cartridge!


S.T. Dupont


For ST Dupont the Ellipsis, Fidelio, Olympio/Orpheo series, Caprice, D-Link, Neo-Classique and the Defi use standard international cartridges.
The Classique, Gatsby (standard or large), Lady and Montparnasse (standard or large) use a cartridge based on the Parker nipple standard and so can use Parker long or short, ST Dupont or Aurora cartridges and converters.

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#10 SUNIL GARG

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 00:41

Personally I do not like to use cartridges but still have a collection of unpacked cartridges
that came free with pens from Cos. like Sailor, Sheaffer, Montblanc,Platinum,Lamy, Pilot etc.
A few months ago I bought a Waterman Carene FP in BD finish & incidentally it came without
a cartridge and the convertor that came with it was leaking ink from the nipple end. I live in
a place in India where Ball Points rule & even a bottle of ink is hard to find-what to say of
a Specific cartridge, Waterman in this case.

I took an empty Mont Blanc cartridge that came with the MB Starwalker, injected it with ink &
pressed it in the Nib unit of Carene. What a relief! They seem to have been made for each other.

BTW, my favorite MB Starwalker is living happily with a Faber-Castell convertor. Hassle Free.

#11 olivier78860

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:48

There is a similar creed with older S.T. Dupont accepting Parker cartridges. It is possible to put a Paker cartridge inside a S.T. Dupont pen, but the flow will be horrible. If you look closely at a S.T. Dupont cartridge, the "cork" is not parallel to the cartridge's base, but oblique. Why ? Because the piercer inside the nipple is flat. So if you have a Parker cartridge, with a flat "cork", and apply it on a flat piercer, well, it won't work well.
Don't try to mix too much cartridges, sometimes it will fit in, but you could get flow interruptions, or worse, soaking inside the barrel.

Converters don't convey such limitations, you just need compatible nipple forms.

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#12 mrcharlie

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 01:56

Some Watermans will take other brands of standard cartridges.

The Phileas will not; it is the one with the brass insert that is unfortunately sized with an inner diameter barely large enough to fit Waterman brand cartridges. The nipple end is irrelevant when the back end won't fit into the barrel; I can state from personal experience that Montblanc and Pelikan shorts will not fit in a Phileas.

#13 TomSch

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 19:42

Hello again!

Perhaps I have something interesting to add about cartridges in common.
A member of the German penexchange-forum has collected much information about the compatibility of ink cartridges.
He has published this on: http://www.giese-onl.../xref.php5#eng1

Best regards,
Thomas