Us Vintage Guys Hate Cartridges -- Too Modern. Unless...

[Richard]

At the Ohio Pen Show last month (November 2009), I found in the auction listing a somewhat beat-up Waterman glass cartridge pen. The inside was pretty beat, too -- the rubber gasket against which the cartridge seats was partly not there and totally ossified -- but never let it be said that a beat-up pen would scare me off. So I bid on, and bought, the pen. I restored it yesterday. A series of O-rings in three different sizes mimic the original seal, and doggone if the pen don't work! It's got a flexy fine stub, and I'm loving it. (The section is hollowed out for a distance back from the opening, so although you can only see the front half of the nib, the full length can participate in the flexing.)

 

http://www.richardspens.com/images/coll/zoomed/glasscart2.jpg

 

This pen, made in the latter half of the 1940s, is what I would call the poster pen for Streamlined Moderne. What a gorgeous bit of French engineering!

 

http://www.richardspens.com/images/coll/zoomed/glasscart2_angled.jpg

[teej47]

Very interesting. I wonder if the cap styling was influenced by the Skyline?

 

Tim

(I have to wonder... though that could just be because I'm carrying a Skyline today)

[Richard]

Very interesting. I wonder if the cap styling was influenced by the Skyline?

Gosh, do you suppose the Skyline was influenced by the Hundred Year Pen?

 

http://www.richardspens.com/images/coll/zoomed/hundred_year_1939.jpg

Edited December 16, 2009 by Richard

[Ron Z]

Gee, I don't feel so guilty repairing one of my own pens now.... especially when it's a repair that I haven't done before. It's called "technical skills development."

 

Nice find Richard!

[mattaw]

I have a very similar pen I have been repairing! Unfortunately I have no remnants of the front seal to study.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=130562

 

I would really value a photo or diagram of the cartridge to feed seal. At the moment I am using an o ring on the shoulders of the cartridge but the pen is a slow starter. I think it is related to missing the seal on the front of the cartridge.

 

Interestingly my nib and feed project much further out of the front of my pen so I surmise they are of different designs.

 

Looking forward eagerly to your answer,

 

Matthew

[Richard]

I have a very similar pen... Interestingly my nib and feed project much further out of the front of my pen so I surmise they are of different designs.

Maybe not so different. If you're missing the hard rubber locknut that screws onto the feed, you can pretty much set the nib and feed however deeply you want. If you have the locknut but are missing the seal, you can still set things farther out than you can if all is well. On the other hand, if your pen has a flared section instead of the streamlined one that my pen has, then the nib and feed are supposed to project further out.

 

Here's a drawing of the section, showing the shape of the seal.

 

http://www.richardspens.com/images/ref/repair/glasscart/glasscart2_sect.png

[antonio ilmonaco]

Hello,

 

I have a few of these pens.

On the following picture, you can see, left to right, a grey model with a really streamlined clip, a burgundy with semi-hooded nib, the same one in demi size (glass cartridge is also smaller), a black one with steel nib (the nib is imprinted "commando" and there is no blind cap), a lever filler, and a mech pencil (push on the clip to extend the lead, click click click...)

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/5371/dscn2913n.jpg

 

Richard I had a good look at your drawing but something looks strange to me. On all the pens i've seen with the rubber seal still intact, the seal has the shape of a collar that protrudes from the section and wraps around the cartridge. When you install the cartridge, you can feel when it goes softly click inside the rubber seal.

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/1120/dscn2916.jpg

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/5480/dscn2917v.jpg

As far as I know no replacement parts are available for these pens, but if the seal has ossified, you can install an o-ring around the feed to seal against the opening of the cartridge as there is a spring-loaded plunger in the blind cap pushing the cartridge. It requires a bit of adjustment but works satisfactorily.

 

All the best,

Antonio

[Richard]

Richard I had a good look at your drawing but something looks strange to me. On all the pens i've seen with the rubber seal still intact, the seal has the shape of a collar that protrudes from the section and wraps around the cartridge.

Mine probably looked that way, too. My drawing shows only what remained in my pen when I got it. I developed a "complete" set of O-rings to replace as much of the seal as I found, and my pen is working very well. I'd love to have a complete seal, but such is life.

[Vintagepens]

Please see my post here about how to fabricate a replacement seal.

[mattaw]

This is very complete information - thankyou so much for FPN! Just need to get the right sac.

 

Matthew

[mattaw]

Just thought I should publish my "stopgap" solution based on the humble o-ring:

 

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_pX0Mn43CzOw/SzjnR8-mVMI/AAAAAAAAAFE/R0vT47IF7-U/s400/28122009016.jpg

 

As you can see this is a fat o-ring - too fat to fit down the pen barrel, which was intentional. After the cartridge is inserted into the joint between the barrel and the feed it forms a tight seal against both, preventing ink leaking into the barrel.

 

I have also adopted the solution of a stack of o-rings inside the end of the feed:

 

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_pX0Mn43CzOw/SzjnSXAMhNI/AAAAAAAAAFI/0fb6eNI49tA/s400/28122009018.jpg

 

However the ideal solution I am going to try to implement will be the end of the ink sac held in place with a small o-ring around the base of the feed as I lack the locknut. I don't think that matters in my case as the fit of the feed requires serious percussive persuasion to extract it already.

 

They write nicely, so it is worth it!

 

Matthew

[mattaw]

Finally got my ink sac delivered - I used a size 20. Here is a photo of the final version with the head of the cartridge shoved in it making it bulge.

 

I have also placed a rubber o-ring at the bottom of the feed and inserted a smaller one inside the ink sac around the end of the feed to create a seal.

 

Unfortunately I have also snapped the cartridge end of the feed in the middle of the screw threads. I had inserted it far too far inside the section and I didn't know about the need for heat to ease insertion and removal. I repaired it with superglue and it is alright, but very weak against shear forces (broke the glue once during sac attachment). Luckily I can now keep the barrel screwed into the feed section to prevent movement and load the cartridges via the blind cap. I am also absorbing the wisdom of Frank Dubiel which seems a good book to cover the basics.

 

Photo:

 

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_pX0Mn43CzOw/S1hrnbujBFI/AAAAAAAAAH8/n99S2ORttn0/s800/21012010030.jpg

Edited January 21, 2010 by mattaw

[mattaw]

Richard, the feed of your waterman seems to be inserted very far in - I confess it is different from the ones I have seen on say Max's webpages.

 

Thoughts?

 

Matthew

[sumgaikid]

I bid on two of these on fleabay(one here in America,on in the UK)and lost.........oh well............

 

 

John

[sumgaikid]

Hello,

 

I have a few of these pens.

On the following picture, you can see, left to right, a grey model with a really streamlined clip, a burgundy with semi-hooded nib, the same one in demi size (glass cartridge is also smaller), a black one with steel nib (the nib is imprinted "commando" and there is no blind cap), a lever filler, and a mech pencil (push on the clip to extend the lead, click click click...)

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/5371/dscn2913n.jpg

 

Richard I had a good look at your drawing but something looks strange to me. On all the pens i've seen with the rubber seal still intact, the seal has the shape of a collar that protrudes from the section and wraps around the cartridge. When you install the cartridge, you can feel when it goes softly click inside the rubber seal.

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/1120/dscn2916.jpg

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/5480/dscn2917v.jpg

As far as I know no replacement parts are available for these pens, but if the seal has ossified, you can install an o-ring around the feed to seal against the opening of the cartridge as there is a spring-loaded plunger in the blind cap pushing the cartridge. It requires a bit of adjustment but works satisfactorily.

 

All the best,

Antonio

 

 

BTW,what is the piece that's seen at the bottom of the glass cartridge?

 

The larger burgundy one is nice...........what colors other than grey,black and burgundy

did this pen come in?

 

 

John

Edited January 23, 2010 by sumgaikid

[antonio ilmonaco]

Hello,

 

The thing in the cartridge is the cork originally sealing the cartridge. Those were designed to be pushed inside the cartridge when inserting it.

Those pen also existed in green and blue, gold and silver trim, i have a black/gold and a blue/gold on their way to my home right now!

 

All the best,

Antonio

[Ray-Vigo]

To me that design looks very much rooted in the 1930s school of Streamline design. If someone put that pen in front of me I would have guessed it was from the late 1930s (late prewar) rather than the late 1940s. I like it-- it reminds me of a military clip Balance.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Ray-Vigo