New - need good starter pen

[JLanguage]

I'm trying to start writing in cursive again after having given up during the school year, and after experiencing several hand cramps writing with a Pilot G-2 decided to get a good pen. My budget is $30-40, though I will spend a bit more if necessary. Some recommendations from the other recent thread were:

 

-Parker 45

-Lamy Safari

-Waterman Phileas

-Pilot Knight

-Hero 100

-Pelikan Pelikano/Future

-Wality

 

A couple of questions:

1. Will these FPs work for writing in spiral notebooks, or will they bleed through too much?

2. I've read medium points are best for beginners, but am worried 1.0 mm will make my handwriting less legible. Should I be concerned?

3. I have no idea what involved in refilling. Is there a good thread about that?

 

Thanks for your time,

-Jonathan.

Edited June 25, 2006 by JLanguage

[*david*]

Your hand cramps are probably caused by writing with your hand cramped, and not by your Pilot G2. Try writing differently. I'm not saying don't get a fountain pen, because I would never say that was a bad idea, but it won't cure your hand.

 

1.0 mm would be an extra wide point for sure. A medium fountain pen is much much less than that. Maybe you were reading about calligraphy pens. Nothing wrong with fine points for a beginner.

 

Refilling a fountain pen is done in two basic ways: either you insert a new plastic cartridge into the pen, or else the pen sucks ink from a bottle by pressing a lever or turning a knob. Most of the pens that use cartridges also have an optional "converter" that allows them to suck ink from a bottle too. (As an oddball, at least one of the Wality models is an "eyedropper filler", which means that the inside of the pen is just an empty chamber and you put ink in there with an eyedropper or a straw. Easy as long as you aim carefully.)

 

Bottle ink has more brands and more colour choices, and it's cheaper if you use your pen a lot. Cartridges are more convenient if you're on the road constantly and don't want to carry an ink bottle, but otherwise they're not as good in my opinion.

 

For writing in spiral notebooks, you want to pick an ink that doesn't soak through too much, and maybe a pen that isn't too wide. Any of your list would work great - but with the Waterman you'd want to get a fine nib. Waterman medium nibs are pretty fat. Lamy you could use a fine or a medium. Some of the others (Hero, Wality) you don't even get a nib choice, they only come one way. They are somewhere around fine to medium.

 

You don't have a bad choice in your list - any of them would work great. Choose based on comfort in your hand and one that you like the look of. If you'd be embarrassed to carry it around, you won't use it much. (That's why I don't have a Phileas. It's a good pen, but I don't like the look of it.)

[BillTheEditor]

Parker 45: Excellent, durable pen. Interchangeable points in a full range of sizes. Fills from converter or you can use cartridges. Vintage 45s are best, offer more color choices.

 

Lamy Safari: Same comments as for the Parker 45 re excellence, durability, interchangeable points in a full range of sizes and re filling. Lots of color choices, in plastic and aluminum. With your hand cramping, you may find the Lamy easier to hold and more comfortable than the 45. The 45 is kind of a small pen; the Safari is larger and has an "ergonomic" type grip (kind of triangular and fatter than the 45).

 

Hero 100: Some reported quality control issues in some production runs a couple of years ago (cracks in the plastic and leaking). Only one nib size - fine. Only available with aerometric filler, which may not be convenient for school use (got to carry a bottle of ink with you). However, I have one (a flighter, over your price range) and I've been very satisfied with it and have had no problems.

 

I don't know anything about the other pens.

 

Use a fast-drying ink and a fine point and you shouldn't have any problem using a fountain pen for school notebooks. For the 45, Parker cartridges are an excellent choice. For the Hero, I'd recommend Noodler's Black or Legal Lapis - fast-drying, ought not to soak through cheap paper.

Edited June 25, 2006 by BillTheEditor

[DrPJM1]

Get the Lamy

[robbyruby]

The Lamy is a great pen for the money. Today, I feel (IMHO) the current best pen for the $$ is the Dani Trio $27 or $30 pens. They write very well and seem like a much more expensive pen. I have a Parker 45, and its a good pen. but I use my "51"s much more. That's what I would recommend. The last one I bought was $45 including shipping. I don't know about the other pens.

For the hand cramps, try tapping your index finger on the pen. Also, don't grip the pen as tightly.

[Goodwhiskers]

Another vote for the Lamy Safari, Medium or Fine point, but not Extra Fine.

Get the converter for bottled ink, which will pay for itself (compared to the price of ink cartridges) quickly.

 

The Lamy Safaris are fairly dry writers (yet amazingly smooth), which is good on bad paper.

 

Noodler's Black and Sheaffer Skrip Blue (Slovenia) are the two best inks in the world for bad paper. N's Black can be written on both sides of any writing paper from any pen (dry to wet), while Skrip Blue can be written on both sides of any writing paper from a Lamy Safari.

 

Noodler's Black is the "bulletproof," waterproof stuff. If you want to carry a bottle of Noodler's, keep it in its little factory box. Also, don't get Noodler's Black on cotton or rayon fabrics .

 

Skrip Blue (not waterproof) can be eradicated by the Pelikan Super-Pirat and other sulfate-sulfite eradicator pens, a feature that can be very useful.

 

Lamy's own inks are OK (and the blue is Pirat-eradicable), but not as well-behaved on bad paper. The blue's hue is fainter than Sheaffer Skrip Blue's. If you don't want to carry a bottle of ink, carry Lamy cartridges as "emergency" spares.

[Sparky]

I have a heavy writing position at work. What I like about using the pare 45 (I have four of them) is that they glide effortlessley on the page. The medium nib is too thick for me as a I write small, but the fine works well too. The parker 45 flighter (same size) but with a metal barrerl comes in a fine. The regualr 45 in a medium (but you can switch them with parker if you want for free).... but if you want a gold nib then it will cost you an extra 20 dollars.

 

Good luck.

[kissing]

All pens listed are great choices, but I have a personal tendency to favour the Lamy and the Parker45 for their simplicity.

 

Refilling using a converter... Info is easy to find on the net, but here's an image that may help:

 

http://www.parkerpen.com/sanford/consumer/parker/images/pcare7.gif (picture from Parker Pen website)

 

I favour filling ink from a bottle over using cartridges for many reasons

[playpen]

Lamy Lamy Lamy....Safari...you will really enjoy it. Its fun, it's colorful, it’s dependable. Everyone should have that in a mate and everyone would be ecstatic!

[meanwhile]

The Pilot G2 is ergonomically excellent - much better than any of the fountain pens suggested. The refill is low drag, and the cushion grip sensibly designed. Switching to another sort of pen is unlikely to help.

 

You need to look at how you are writing - are you tense, are your muscles cold, do you need rest breaks, to press or grip less, etc. There's no reason that I know of (and my day job has involved quite a but of ergonomics research and decision making) to expect an FP to help you.

 

My advice is that if your hand cramps are serious, you should do some research about RSI rather than fountain pens. Oh, and maybe switch to the AlphaGel version of the G2 - ergonomically it is probably the best pen in existence. (You'll have to start buying refills rather than throwing the pen away though.)

 

If you still want to switch to an FP to get greater writing comfort, no one can really help you - the fit of pen to hand is too individual, much more so with an FP than any other type of pen.

[kissing]

Here's a link that tells you about fountain pen maintenance (from Parker website) for people who have "dipped only" and need some info:

 

http://www.parkerpen.com/sanford/consumer/...BSCIIQKA4QHQJCK

[sonia_simone]

One good tip I got from _Write Now!_ is to take a break every once in a while and tap the pen lightly with your forefinger. (Do this while you are holding your pen in writing position.) It loosens up the death grip a little. You don't have to make it a full-on yoga position, just two or three light taps to loosen the muscles.

[ConnallMac]

The Pilot G2 is ergonomically excellent - much better than any of the fountain pens suggested. The refill is low drag, and the cushion grip sensibly designed. Switching to another sort of pen is unlikely to help.

I have to take issue with this statement; as I have used both the G2 and fountain pens for years, using the G2 as my go to pen when a fountain pen was not appropriate. I definately notice a difference in the drag when I switch to a G2 after using a fountain pen. I have to push the G2 across the page, where my fountain pens just glide across the paper. As smooth as the gel ink is, it is hard to beat the lubrication of a half way decent fountain pen ink. Grip and writing mechanics certainly contribute to the problem, but I think a fountain pen would help. Heck, fountain pens helped me to correct some of the mechanical issues I was having with my writing style!

 

 

--J. Haney

 

 

Also, I remember reading an article about three or four months ago about doctors recommending fountain pens to arthritic patients!

[Ron Z]

Of the pens you've listed, I would go for the Lamy Safari. A little larger in girth than the others, with a well designed section. They no longer come with a converter, so be sure to order one when you order the pen.

 

It is possible to adjust the flow of a pen so that no pressure on the nib is needed to write. Both Richard and I have had folks come to our tables at pen shows to have their nibs adjusted for a wet line with no pressure. In my case, the gentleman had nerve damage and could not grip the pen. All that he could do was guide the pen across the page.

 

The price of the Safari is low enough that you wouldn't lose much money if it didn't work out for you. I agree with the comment that you shouldn't order anything finer than a fine, unless you like a really fine, somewhat toothy nib!

 

A Phileas is a nice pen too. Larger in girth, but more expensive than the Lamy.

 

There's always the Pelikan 200. If you don't like the nib size, you can buy another nib for the pen!

[meanwhile]

The Pilot G2 is ergonomically excellent - much better than any of the fountain pens suggested. The refill is low drag, and the cushion grip sensibly designed. Switching to another sort of pen is unlikely to help.

I have to take issue with this statement; as I have used both the G2 and fountain pens for years, using the G2 as my go to pen when a fountain pen was not appropriate. I definately notice a difference in the drag when I switch to a G2 after using a fountain pen. I have to push the G2 across the page, where my fountain pens just glide across the paper. As smooth as the gel ink is, it is hard to beat the lubrication of a half way decent fountain pen ink.

 

 

The force used in pushing a G2 is miniscule - although it probably is greater than for an FP. The important factor in muscle cramping with a pen will the the strength of the grip applied and the suitability of the object for gripping - size, shape, material, etc. In fact the need for "push" rather than grip effort is arguably beneficial - users of old style typewriters had fewer RSI problems than todays PC users.

 

One thought that occurs to me is that grip tension often increases with the perceived need for accuracy if a tool is unresponsive - if this is the case then switching to an extra fine FP or gel pen might help, subject to good ergonomics. Regarding which, don't Lamy nibs tend to be a size broader than you'd expect?

[Ron Z]

don't Lamy nibs tend to be a size broader than you'd expect?

IIRC, talking to the Lamy service guy, the Safari (read steel nibs use in Safari, and Studio, which can be swapped out BTW) run finer than their gold nibs. This has been my experience. The XF is really quite fine, which is why I recommended a Fine nib. The XF nibs tend to have bit of tooth to them too.

 

The gold nibs OTOH, seem to run a bit on the wide side, as with the 2000 and Persona.

[pvdiamon]

For that price, I purchased the Sheaffer Prelude which is a great pen. It has an interesting nib feel, best described as like writing with a pencil, which I find pleasant. I think it's a great first pen. Also, the Sensa Meridian, maybe writes even nicer than the Sheaffer, but it's too fat for my likes, and a bit heavy. Finally, I"ve been getting into Esterbrook pens, although vintage, if they have a new sac, they should work fine, and you can find tons of inexpensive new nib sizes to try out.

[meanwhile]

For that price, I purchased the Sheaffer Prelude which is a great pen. It has an interesting nib feel, best described as like writing with a pencil, which I find pleasant. I think it's a great first pen. Also, the Sensa Meridian, maybe writes even nicer than the Sheaffer, but it's too fat for my likes, and a bit heavy. Finally, I"ve been getting into Esterbrook pens, although vintage, if they have a new sac, they should work fine, and you can find tons of inexpensive new nib sizes to try out.

I'm curious - how many people who have tried the Safari and the Esterbrook (especially the ones with 9xxx nibs) would NOT say the Estie writes much better? I wouldn't even put the two in the same league - the Estie is up there with a high-end Sheaffer, Parker or Pelikan in my book - maybe not quite as good as my Balance or 1K nib Targa, but in the same class at least.

[formerchickenscratcher]

Regarding the comments on ergonomics such as grip and viscosity across the page:

 

A calligrapher once told me that I should strive to use only my shoulder muscles when I write. That they, when "trained" are more controllable then the wrist muscles or worse; hand muscles.

 

I must say that this is the main reason why I am "former chicken scratcher". As an added bonus I am less vulnerable to wrist cramping- since if I use the proper recommended form my wrist remains straight. Also, I am less sensitive to viscosity issues with the type of writing instrument. However, there is nothing more relaxing than a smooth fountain pen nib on good paper.

[chemgeek]

The Lamy Safari fine point should be quite acceptable for routine writing with small handwriting. I think a medium point would be too broad and wet for plain or cheap paper. My Safari is a pretty wet writer with Private Reserve inks, but should be acceptable for a typical spiral bound notebook. I think you will not want to write on both sides of the page in a cheap spiral bound notebook, but I haven't had problems with bleed through to the page underneath with a fine point. Don't forget to buy the converter (not supplied with the pen) if you don't want to use cartridges.

 

The stainless steel black point (fine) is remarkably smooth, and although it doesn't glide as well as some more extensively crafted nibs, is smoother than pens in the same or higher price class. As a bonus, it will easily write through three- or four-part forms, obviating the need to also carry a ball-point pen.

 

Cheers.