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contact cement vs. rubber cement


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#1 dnr

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 18:19

Hi All!

Da Book calls for the use of rubber cement in certain repairs. One of my kids was at a store and I asked her to get me some. She returned with DAP Weldwood Contact Cement. I am thinking this is not a good cement to use as it states "permanent bonds."

Am I correct or is it OK to use such as when sealing a barrel to the nib section in order to get a good seal on a Touch-Down?

Thanks in advance,

dnr

#2 OldGriz

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 18:31

QUOTE (dnr @ Jun 14 2009, 02:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi All!

Da Book calls for the use of rubber cement in certain repairs. One of my kids was at a store and I asked her to get me some. She returned with DAP Weldwood Contact Cement. I am thinking this is not a good cement to use as it states "permanent bonds."

Am I correct or is it OK to use such as when sealing a barrel to the nib section in order to get a good seal on a Touch-Down?

Thanks in advance,

dnr


DO NOT use either contact cement or rubber cement on any pen repairs.... the chemicals they contain can cause severe damage to some pens...
In this case Da Book is completely wrong....
When you want to seal a section to a barrel use section sealant like Ron Zorn sells.
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#3 FarmBoy

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 18:31

QUOTE (dnr @ Jun 14 2009, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi All!

Da Book calls for the use of rubber cement in certain repairs. One of my kids was at a store and I asked her to get me some. She returned with DAP Weldwood Contact Cement. I am thinking this is not a good cement to use as it states "permanent bonds."

Am I correct or is it OK to use such as when sealing a barrel to the nib section in order to get a good seal on a Touch-Down?

Thanks in advance,

dnr

Da Book is wrong. Don't use rubber cement or contact cement for pen repairs.

Todd

#4 dnr

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 18:43

Thanks all, that is what I will do!

Best regards,

dnr

#5 richardandtracy

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 16:09

As a note of semantics, I think 'Rubber Cement' and 'Contact Cement' are the same thing. Contact cement is rubber dissolved in a highly pernicious solvent. And rubber is much less likely to dissolve in the solvent than most of your pen is.

Regards,

Richard.


#6 RLTodd

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Posted 15 June 2009 - 17:33

QUOTE (richardandtracy @ Jun 15 2009, 09:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As a note of semantics, I think 'Rubber Cement' and 'Contact Cement' are the same thing. Contact cement is rubber dissolved in a highly pernicious solvent. And rubber is much less likely to dissolve in the solvent than most of your pen is.

Regards,

Richard.


Not here.

Liquid Rubber cement is a mild adhesive used to lay down paper on paper so that it can be removed at a later time. Easily cleaned by rolling it in balls of ones skin.

Contact Cement is a nasty adhesive that creeps out of laboratories for the purpose of holding things together till the end of time. This stuff is best handled with rubber gloves.


YMMV

#7 dnr

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 00:23

QUOTE (RLTodd @ Jun 15 2009, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (richardandtracy @ Jun 15 2009, 09:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As a note of semantics, I think 'Rubber Cement' and 'Contact Cement' are the same thing. Contact cement is rubber dissolved in a highly pernicious solvent. And rubber is much less likely to dissolve in the solvent than most of your pen is.

Regards,

Richard.


Not here.

Liquid Rubber cement is a mild adhesive used to lay down paper on paper so that it can be removed at a later time. Easily cleaned by rolling it in balls of ones skin.

Contact Cement is a nasty adhesive that creeps out of laboratories for the purpose of holding things together till the end of time. This stuff is best handled with rubber gloves.


Makes sense based on the bottle's chemical analysis.
Thanks!
dnr

#8 Pippin60

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 01:01

QUOTE (RLTodd @ Jun 15 2009, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (richardandtracy @ Jun 15 2009, 09:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As a note of semantics, I think 'Rubber Cement' and 'Contact Cement' are the same thing. Contact cement is rubber dissolved in a highly pernicious solvent. And rubber is much less likely to dissolve in the solvent than most of your pen is.

Regards,

Richard.


Not here.

Liquid Rubber cement is a mild adhesive used to lay down paper on paper so that it can be removed at a later time. Easily cleaned by rolling it in balls of ones skin.

Contact Cement is a nasty adhesive that creeps out of laboratories for the purpose of holding things together till the end of time. This stuff is best handled with rubber gloves.


Contact cement is great if you never want to take it apart again. Also as Old Griz mentioned both rubber cement and contact cement contain solvents that will etch, melt or permanently damage most plastics.

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#9 RLTodd

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 05:02

I keep being told, pen, use shellac.

I understand that there is available a shellac / rosin mixture that is both sticky and less hardening that is being offered now.
YMMV

#10 richardandtracy

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 08:08

QUOTE (RLTodd @ Jun 15 2009, 06:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (richardandtracy @ Jun 15 2009, 09:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As a note of semantics, I think 'Rubber Cement' and 'Contact Cement' are the same thing....

Not here.
Liquid Rubber cement is a mild adhesive used to lay down paper on paper so that it can be removed at a later time. ...Contact Cement is a nasty adhesive that creeps out of laboratories for the purpose of holding things together till the end of time. ...

Yikes. Another case of US & UK English using the same words with different meanings. Must remember this one.

I've only heard the 'Liquid Rubber' adhesive you talk about referred to in the UK by its brand name of 'Copydex', even when the brand wasn't Copydex. (A bit like all vacuum cleaners being called "Hoover's".)
Contact Cement can only be sold to those over 16 years old these days in the UK, we had a while when teenagers were buying the stuff to get high by sniffing the solvent. Now that hard drugs are more available, the solvent abuse demand has tended to tail off.

Regards,

Richard.


#11 Ron Z

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 13:19

QUOTE
I understand that there is available a shellac / rosin mixture that is both sticky and less hardening that is being offered now.


No shellac at all in my Sheaffer formula thread sealant. It looks like it might have shellac, and the color is similar, because the rosin is a high grade light rosin.


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#12 Buzz J

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 02:28

ndr,

Try Ron's sealant mentioned above. Since I got Ron's, the similar product from Tryphon never sees the light of day.

John
so many pens, so little time.......

#13 derikjohnson

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 15:33

QUOTE (Buzz J @ Jun 16 2009, 07:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ndr,

Try Ron's sealant mentioned above. Since I got Ron's, the similar product from Tryphon never sees the light of day.

John



Hello,
Where can someone purchase Ron's sealant? Also, to your knowledge does it work for resealing Montblanc 149's?

Thanks,
Derik
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#14 OldGriz

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 15:41

QUOTE (derikjohnson @ Jul 28 2009, 11:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Buzz J @ Jun 16 2009, 07:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ndr,

Try Ron's sealant mentioned above. Since I got Ron's, the similar product from Tryphon never sees the light of day.

John



Hello,
Where can someone purchase Ron's sealant? Also, to your knowledge does it work for resealing Montblanc 149's?

Thanks,
Derik


From Ron... where else... just click on the link in his signature
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That is Honor, and there are way too many people in This country who no longer understand it.

#15 grimakis

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 21:22

QUOTE (derikjohnson @ Jul 28 2009, 11:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Buzz J @ Jun 16 2009, 07:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ndr,

Try Ron's sealant mentioned above. Since I got Ron's, the similar product from Tryphon never sees the light of day.

John



Hello,
Where can someone purchase Ron's sealant? Also, to your knowledge does it work for resealing Montblanc 149's?

Thanks,
Derik


I use it for everything... even Parker "51" hoods. It is so versatile, I have used it to mend a clarinet pad, and to fix a broken earbud.

~George

#16 Inka

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 23:22

I have Rons' thread/section sealant and it's the best thing out there.
Rons' is based on the original Sheaffer's formulation and contains no cements, glues or the "Bad & the Ugly" stuff that all should steer well clear of!
So go to Rons' Website as others have suggested, get his Sheaffer's Thread Sealant and you'll be a very happy-camper, you won’t be sorry you did, I guarantee it!

Never use rubber cement in any repairs as well as never use DAP Weldwood Contact Cement.
They are most definitely the "Bad & the Ugly" stuff that I'd mentioned above that all should steer well clear of!!!
“I view my fountain pens & inks as an artist might view their brushes and paints.
They flow across paper as a brush to canvas, transforming my thoughts into words and my words into art.
There is nothing else like it; the art of writing and the painting of words!”

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#17 Richard

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 01:25

QUOTE (grimakis @ Jul 28 2009, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I use it for everything... even Parker "51" hoods. It is so versatile, I have used it to mend a clarinet pad, and to fix a broken earbud.

Don't use it for shells (hoods) on the "51", "21", "41", 61, or any similar pen. For these, use shellac. Ron's sealant is non-hardening, and you don't want these joints to be potentially movable. They need to be solid, and that means shellac. Shellac softens at a sufficiently low temperature that you aren't risking damage to the plastics on these pens if you need to disassemble the pen at a later date.
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#18 grimakis

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 14:06

QUOTE (Richard @ Jul 28 2009, 09:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (grimakis @ Jul 28 2009, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I use it for everything... even Parker "51" hoods. It is so versatile, I have used it to mend a clarinet pad, and to fix a broken earbud.

Don't use it for shells (hoods) on the "51", "21", "41", 61, or any similar pen. For these, use shellac. Ron's sealant is non-hardening, and you don't want these joints to be potentially movable. They need to be solid, and that means shellac. Shellac softens at a sufficiently low temperature that you aren't risking damage to the plastics on these pens if you need to disassemble the pen at a later date.


While I would never use it on other people's pens, I use it on all of mine. The sealant thickens enough to keep it from turning during normal use, but if you give it a good twist you can get it off.

#19 Douglas

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Posted 05 August 2009 - 17:33

I prefer to use shellac for "51" hoods because it locks the hood in place better than thread sealant. Of course, shellac will soften with heat and, therefore, creates no problem with future dissassembly.

#20 dcjacobson

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Posted 05 August 2009 - 18:44

I have Ron's sealant, but I will note that in the past I've used rubber cement to seal barrels to the sections in Snorkels and Touchdowns. I've picked up pens I did this to six, seven years ago and I can detect no harm at all.

Good luck,
Don

Edited by dcjacobson, 05 August 2009 - 18:47.


#21 Ron Z

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Posted 05 August 2009 - 19:33

QUOTE (dcjacobson @ Aug 5 2009, 02:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have Ron's sealant, but I will note that in the past I've used rubber cement to seal barrels to the sections in Snorkels and Touchdowns. I've picked up pens I did this to six, seven years ago and I can detect no harm at all.

Good luck,
Don


You were lucky Don. Rubber cement won't harm pens, it just doesn't work. I tried it on a number of pens, and found that it just didn't seal as well as I thought that it should.

For the record, if one were to do a search, they would find that I recommended using a rosin based thread sealant for a long time before I introduced mine. I used Giovanni's section sealant for 3 or 4 years before I started making the Sheaffer formula thread sealant, and I started making it when I saw it in the Sheaffer service center. I was impressed by the stuff, and still am.


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#22 eckiethump

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Posted 05 August 2009 - 22:13

I made my own too, rosin based section sealant, just part of the pen repair/restore process. Rosin, castor oil mix, just get the consistency right ???
et
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#23 The Pensmith

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Posted 06 August 2009 - 10:58

I hate to say it - many of you are way off course! Rubber cement is that highly smelly, slightly thick (usually grey coloured) stuff used by artists to non-permanently mount artwork to a backing board. It is precisely the "rubber cement" referred to in Da Book. It is usually available in art stores but, no matter how tightly you cap the bottle, half the contents disappears in a week!

The point (impliedly made by Frank Dubiel in Da Book) is that section glue of any form, should be reversible. Shellac was the tradition and, I still use it in older, hard rubber pens where there is some porosity in the material. I will only use rubber cement in newer (resin) pens. It sticks well but, not permanently. A bit of force will break the bond without damage. Similarly, a little force and light heat will break the shellac bond.

Eckiethump's observations regarding Rosin glues are correct. They produce a similar result to rubber cement. I don't have the recipe skills of Eckiethump and hence, rely on the rubber cement from art stores.

Please - "rubber cement" and "contact cement (or glue)" are two entirely different things. Contact cement (or glue) is an absolute disaster when used on hard rubber pens.

#24 dcjacobson

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Posted 07 August 2009 - 21:28

You were lucky Don. Rubber cement won't harm pens, it just doesn't work. I tried it on a number of pens, and found that it just didn't seal as well as I thought that it should.


Ron, that was my experience, too. I stopped doing it, because there didn't seem to be any difference in filling performance between pens I sealed with rubber cement, and those for which I simply screwed the barrel back on "plain."

Thanks,
Don