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Help needed on Wahl Doric plunger filling system


waishiu

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I have a Wahl Doric, 2nd generation with a plunger filling system, the type that has a visulated barrel, and not a visulated section. (I think there are two types, right?).

 

When I fill it, the best I can do with one downstroke is to fill 1/4 or 1/5 (or less) of the barrel, as seen thru the visulated barrel. And after this much has been filled, additional filling actions - up and down strokes with the nib and part of section submerged - do not seem to add any more ink to the barrel.

 

My questions are: Is this normal? How much of the barrel can the pen fill with just one downstroke action? About usually how many strokes does it take to fill the whole (or max) barrel, if this is possible?

 

Thanks very much for the help, y'all. :thumbup: - Wai

Pens in rotation: Parker 51 DJ, Wyvern herringbone w/ deco band

Pens looking to buy: Lamy Dialog 3 XF, Swan Visofil V Series

Pens I'm selling: Pelikan 140 OM, Lamy Al-Star M, Hero 100 Flighter F

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I have a Wahl Doric, 2nd generation with a plunger filling system, the type that has a visulated barrel, and not a visulated section. (I think there are two types, right?).

 

When I fill it, the best I can do with one downstroke is to fill 1/4 or 1/5 (or less) of the barrel, as seen thru the visulated barrel. And after this much has been filled, additional filling actions - up and down strokes with the nib and part of section submerged - do not seem to add any more ink to the barrel.

 

My questions are: Is this normal? How much of the barrel can the pen fill with just one downstroke action? About usually how many strokes does it take to fill the whole (or max) barrel, if this is possible?

 

Thanks very much for the help, y'all. :thumbup: - Wai

 

 

90% fill should be possible in a correctly functioning pen. If you get only 25%, then either the gasket on the forn end of the plunger or the packing unit (Wahl-Eversharp them them stuffing boxes) is not making a good enough seal against the plunger rod as it travels through it. And then the plunger rod needs to be smooth too. Any or all of this items needs to be correct for a sufficient vaccum to be created with the one down stroke.

 

Because of the configuration and the proper valve action, additional strokes will do nothing to fill the pen further. Many restorers use solid gaskets these days but the correct gasket has 5 holes surrounding the center mounting hole that are positioned in front of the solid plunger washer when correctly installed and that are blocked on the down stroke to allow the vacuum to form, , but are free to let ink flow when relaxed at the end of the plunge.

 

One simple test for vacuum is to remove the section and operate the plunger and listen for a very noticeable "pop" when the plunger reached the end of its plunge. If you get the pop, the vacuum is working to some good degree. another method and only if the pen is really clean is to hold the open end of the barrel (with the section removed of course) against the soft part of your lip push the plunger down as if filling he pen and feel the suction happen when the plunger reaches bottom. I know that sounds funny but it is a very effective way to quickly see if the pen develops a good vacuum when you feel that suction and see how long it can last. The barrel should hold somewhat fast for about 5 seconds at least if there is a good seal all the way around on these parts.

 

Syd

 

Syd "the Wahlnut" Saperstein

Pensbury Manor

Vintage Wahl Eversharp Writing Instruments

Pensbury Manor

 

The WAHL-EVERSHARP Company

www.wahleversharp.com

New WAHL-EVERSHARP fountain and Roller-Ball pens

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90% fill should be possible in a correctly functioning pen. If you get only 25%, then either the gasket on the forn end of the plunger or the packing unit (Wahl-Eversharp them them stuffing boxes) is not making a good enough seal against the plunger rod as it travels through it. And then the plunger rod needs to be smooth too. Any or all of this items needs to be correct for a sufficient vaccum to be created with the one down stroke.

 

Because of the configuration and the proper valve action, additional strokes will do nothing to fill the pen further. Many restorers use solid gaskets these days but the correct gasket has 5 holes surrounding the center mounting hole that are positioned in front of the solid plunger washer when correctly installed and that are blocked on the down stroke to allow the vacuum to form, , but are free to let ink flow when relaxed at the end of the plunge.

 

One simple test for vacuum is to remove the section and operate the plunger and listen for a very noticeable "pop" when the plunger reached the end of its plunge. If you get the pop, the vacuum is working to some good degree. another method and only if the pen is really clean is to hold the open end of the barrel (with the section removed of course) against the soft part of your lip push the plunger down as if filling he pen and feel the suction happen when the plunger reaches bottom. I know that sounds funny but it is a very effective way to quickly see if the pen develops a good vacuum when you feel that suction and see how long it can last. The barrel should hold somewhat fast for about 5 seconds at least if there is a good seal all the way around on these parts.

 

Syd

 

Syd, thanks for the detail response. I haven't tried the suggested tests on the Doric. But first, I want to make sure how big a problem it has: the ink-view barrel is ambered and it can be difficult to tell what the water level is.

 

But using a syringe for measurement, I found that the pen can suck up about 1.5mL of fluid in one down-stoke. Does this sound alright?

 

Thanks again for your help, Wai.

 

Pens in rotation: Parker 51 DJ, Wyvern herringbone w/ deco band

Pens looking to buy: Lamy Dialog 3 XF, Swan Visofil V Series

Pens I'm selling: Pelikan 140 OM, Lamy Al-Star M, Hero 100 Flighter F

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1.5ml is about 1/3 capacity. 4-4.5 ml should be possible. But it will cost you about $45 to have the pen reworked to get the optimal amount of ink to be drawn in with one plunge. If you get 33% maybe you should be satisfied for the time being. You can write a lot of words or draw a lot of doodles with that charge of ink. For comparison, the small international cartridges (like the ones private reserve puts out, are 1.5ml. The Dorics were made to hold 3 times the ink that these small cartridges hold. In a sac pen, 2.3 ml will fill up a size 19 sac (depending on the length). The barrel dimensions of these dprics is more like a size 24 sac, and hold a lot of ink.

 

If your vacuum seems good and you are still having trouble, you might also check to see if the vacuum break cross bar is still in the section. Many pens are missing this item. It is a hard rubber bar that sits off-center and across the inner section spanning the threaded portion of the section from side to side. The plunger tip is supposed to hit this bar at the end of the down stroke. Its purpose is to force the plunger tip off-center and make sure that the plunger and its gasket are pushed to one side to allow ink to flow in when filling and out when writing. The next item of concern is what position the plunger tip is at the end of its downstroke travel. The adjusting nut at the end of the plunger shaft is there to do more than be a lock nut for the blind cap! Where it is set also controls the end of the rod travel and the position of the rounded plunger tip relative to the cross bar. These are simple to work on if you know how it is supposed to be set up, but it is a lot harder to describe it all.

 

 

 

Syd

Syd "the Wahlnut" Saperstein

Pensbury Manor

Vintage Wahl Eversharp Writing Instruments

Pensbury Manor

 

The WAHL-EVERSHARP Company

www.wahleversharp.com

New WAHL-EVERSHARP fountain and Roller-Ball pens

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Syd- the pen in question is the Blue Shell Doric you restored for me in March. I don't know if that would answer some of your own questions, or help you narrow it down. Not sure what the deal is, Wai's sending it back to me for me to take a look at it.

 

EDIT: I just read this post now, and I am confused about a few things enough to reply...

 

I'm very surprised that 4-4.5 ml would be amount in a full fill. You don't get that with any regular plunger-filling pen that I know of. A vacfill O/S Balance only takes in about 3.0 mL, and that's a longer and thicker pen. I usually only pull in 1.5-2 mL with most plunger filling pens- the other two plunger filling Dorics I have of this model, Pilot 823, standard sized Sheaffer Vac-fills.

 

Regards,

Aaron

Edited by RevAaron

WTB: Lamy 27 w/ OB/OBB nibs; Pelikan 100 B nib

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Hrmm... Curiouser and curiouser!

 

I'm not sure quite how to reconcile what Syd and Wai have said- after reading the posts above I knew I had to do a few experiments. ;)

 

I just did a bunch of measurements on two other pens, cousins of Wai's. One a Gold Shell 2nd gen plunger fill restored by Syd/Wahlnut and the other a Burgundy shell 2nd gen plunger fill that's never made been to Pensbury Manor. :) Both are the full size (5" long) version. The Gold Shell is a Gold Seal w/ an adjustable nib, the Burgundy is a non-Gold Seal with a banner nib.

 

Both of them take in 1.5-1.6 mL after a single downstroke. Both of them look to be visible 2/3-3/4th of the way full when holding 1.5 mL. Both maxed out somewhere between 2.0-2.1 mL after doing multiple downstrokes, leaving only a small air bubble visible at the top.

 

Not knowing if my eyes decieved me, I unscrewed the section on the burgundy Doric. I filled it with a syringe with the piston rod pulled back completely, and I only reached 2.0 mL. I assume the slight decrease is because of the volume of what would've been in the section and feed.

 

This seems to invalidate what both Wai and Syd are saying:

 

1. That a 2nd gen plunger fill Doric should hold in 4.5 (!) mL of ink; or

2. That such a pen would appear to be 1/4th or 1/5th full when holding 1.5 mL.

 

Which makes me wonder if Wai is looking just at the transparent area to determine the 1/4th measurement? If so, it may be worth pointing out that, like a regular piston filler with an ink window (Pelikan M200, Montblanc 146/149) the ink chamber goes on past what you see with an ink window. In the case of the these Dorcs, the transparent area is only 1/3-1/2 of the length of the ink chamber.

 

The easiest way to test this hypothesis is to turn the pen upside down. E.g. if you fill the pen and you only see 1/4 of the ink window full, turn it so the nib is pointing downwards. If it's actually only 1/4th full, you'll still have a good amount of clear ink window left above the ink level.

 

...?

WTB: Lamy 27 w/ OB/OBB nibs; Pelikan 100 B nib

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Hrmm... Curiouser and curiouser!

 

I'm not sure quite how to reconcile what Syd and Wai have said- after reading the posts above I knew I had to do a few experiments. ;)

 

I just did a bunch of measurements on two other pens, cousins of Wai's. One a Gold Shell 2nd gen plunger fill restored by Syd/Wahlnut and the other a Burgundy shell 2nd gen plunger fill that's never made been to Pensbury Manor. :) Both are the full size (5" long) version. The Gold Shell is a Gold Seal w/ an adjustable nib, the Burgundy is a non-Gold Seal with a banner nib.

 

Both of them take in 1.5-1.6 mL after a single downstroke. Both of them look to be visible 2/3-3/4th of the way full when holding 1.5 mL. Both maxed out somewhere between 2.0-2.1 mL after doing multiple downstrokes, leaving only a small air bubble visible at the top.

 

Not knowing if my eyes decieved me, I unscrewed the section on the burgundy Doric. I filled it with a syringe with the piston rod pulled back completely, and I only reached 2.0 mL. I assume the slight decrease is because of the volume of what would've been in the section and feed.

 

This seems to invalidate what both Wai and Syd are saying:

 

1. That a 2nd gen plunger fill Doric should hold in 4.5 (!) mL of ink; or

2. That such a pen would appear to be 1/4th or 1/5th full when holding 1.5 mL.

 

Which makes me wonder if Wai is looking just at the transparent area to determine the 1/4th measurement? If so, it may be worth pointing out that, like a regular piston filler with an ink window (Pelikan M200, Montblanc 146/149) the ink chamber goes on past what you see with an ink window. In the case of the these Dorcs, the transparent area is only 1/3-1/2 of the length of the ink chamber.

 

The easiest way to test this hypothesis is to turn the pen upside down. E.g. if you fill the pen and you only see 1/4 of the ink window full, turn it so the nib is pointing downwards. If it's actually only 1/4th full, you'll still have a good amount of clear ink window left above the ink level.

 

...?

 

Aaron's right cause, well er um, maybe I did the math or the measurement wrong. I dont usually go mathematical on capacity but since the direction the thread started that way I tried to carry on that way. I had a 1ml syringe. using the syringe on a pen with all the internal parts all together proved hard, so since I know a size 19 or 20 sac fits these pens in a lever filler version, I used the syringe to fill a #20 sac, and came up with 4-4.5ml. My bad! Obviousle an empty sac does not account for the sace taken up by the plunger, the gasket, or the internal section area. So forget about my 4-4.5 mls.

I am away and can not repeat te measurement right now, but adjusting for this error, lets go with Aarons capacity numbers. Sounds right to me, now.

 

3/4 plus fill is do-able though and 90% is optimum max, as a goal but not easy to get nor maintain plunge after plunge or as the pen goes through it's restored life forward.

 

Thanks for the correction.

 

Syd

Syd "the Wahlnut" Saperstein

Pensbury Manor

Vintage Wahl Eversharp Writing Instruments

Pensbury Manor

 

The WAHL-EVERSHARP Company

www.wahleversharp.com

New WAHL-EVERSHARP fountain and Roller-Ball pens

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  • 5 years later...

Hi Gang,

I recently picked up a Senior Doric, 2nd series vac-fill.

I weighed it dry; 17.03 grams.

I filled it with just 1 shot; 19.58 grams.

I then re-filled it using the trick I learnt with my TWSBI VAC-700 to completely fill it.

I weighed it again; 20.07 grams.

 

Now, I'm not Exactly sure what 1ml of ink weighs, but it's got to be close to 1g, so I'm calling it at 2.5ml or 3ml if I really feel the need to cover the kitchen table with Wanterman's Serenity Blue.

 

Cheers

Noel aka DuckMcF

 

PS I know I've brought back a 5yo thread, but it's on topic and I'm on holidays so I thought, why not....

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